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Poll on Australian Live Animal Export

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Magda:
Hey Daughter of a farmer who doesn't farm any more. You are a hypocrite. How can you say you love animals when you subject them to the ghastly and always long, torturous and tedious death? Distressing for the "Slaughterer" Have you ever met any of these individuals? Most abattoirs in Australia murder in halal style and all death houses have no respect for their terrified victim. You call yourself a "farmer"? The correct title should be "Flesh Trader". I have been a Vegetarian then Vegan for over fifty years and get my source of protein from nonviolent sources. Work hard as a farmer? Try making your living in the city particularly with very little study as most farmers have. You look after your animals to make money from them, not because you love them. How dare you use the word love? In the words of a decent and humane person "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
ó Leonardo da Vinci

Export News Tasmania:
Tankgirl, while we appreciate your input, we make the point that now this industry has its hand out to the taxpayer yet again because it cannot deal with a change in government policy. Most of the people you cite here have jobs which would continue without the export factor.

The meat industry received no handouts when you started this trade, no labour market adjustment, yet the farmers expect compensation - AND they want their disgusting trade back - even after what they cannot fail to have seen in countless investigations in all importing countries. Does that not tell you something?

The meat workers receeived nothing except unemployment. Satellite businesses in towns where meat processing was the only, or the major industry and employer, were further casualties, and also received no handouts. So we fail to see why people who have made fortunes in animal abuse over decades, using a massive proportion of OUR tax dollars, should expect to be treated differently.

As for all farmers being cruel, no-one has said any such thing, Farmers who knowingly expose their animals to this cruelty, however, which we have seen too many times for it to be remotely considered 'isolated incidents' are entirely another matter. Perhaps you should look for the document at this site 'A disaster by any other name'. It outlines exactly the sort of ships used in this trade, the vast majority being about 30 years old and former oil tankers, vehicle trainsporters and the like. There are very few 'new', 'purpose built' vessels in this trade, and all are registered in flag of convenience ports where standards are considerably lower, and manned by third world crews. That is why animals die on them.

Australian maritime workers sre not employed on these ships.

The animals who survive the journeys are the really umfortunate ones though. They are handed over to savages who, as shown in multiple lots of footage we have seen, clearly enjoy torturing them. Farmers who send them cannot fail to know this, and if they claim otherwise, they are at best disingenuous and at worst negligent. Please don't tell us they 'care for their animals'.

They only care about how fast they can get them back into the hellholes that are the importing countries as soon as possible. The way the people in these countries treat each other, particularly women, is a salutory lesson - yet still Australia sends them defenceless animals. If anyone has failed the farming sector, it is your own Meat and Livestock Australia, and it is MLA that you should be blaming for what you apparently believe is a crisis, not decent Australians who are disgusted, outraged and ashamed to be Australian because of this industry.

tankgirl:
My concern regarding this program being propaganda, is that it did not provide a balanced view and focused solely on the horror. If it had truly wanted to understand the situation, it would have provided for all sides of the story.

I think you will find if you investigate this further, that although MLA and LiveCorp did receive a report, the general industry, thecattle producers, were not each issued with a copy of this report, and because the majority of them, do not travel with each load to see them slaughtered, were unaware. Many producers are outraged buy the cruelty, and I have previously stated that I find it sickening to see animals mistreated.

I have never said that suffering did not occur, however I am saying that perhaps we have not been shown all there is to know. I am pleased that you have indeed seen animals, I made this statement because many on this forum seem to think that farmers are as a whole, cruel and nasty to their animals and this is concerning and shows a general ignorance of many (but perhaps not all) people who raise animals. I grew up on a farm and must admit that I rarely saw animals mistreated, this includes those that were ultimately for food.

I understand that cows are sentient beings. This is not something I would dispute. However, I find this difficult to explain to someone not ready to accept another point of view, and convinced that all farmers are heartless and mistreat animals. When farmers talk of producing, this means they grow food, be it lettuce, beans, cows or sheep. They tend the lettuce, beans, cows or sheep, they provide nutrients and water so they grow. They treat them for pests, diseases and illnesses. Many farmers practice selective breeding, choosing to replant seeds from the beans that grow the biggest best beans, choosing to breed from the cows that bear the healthiest calves that grow into the best animals. When farmers talk of producing this is what they mean. For a  farmer, beans, cattle, sheep or lettuce are what that they grow that earns them money. In your local plant nursery plants that the nursery operator has grown and are sitting on the shelves growing bigger while waiting to be sold would be referred to as stock. This is in effect and accounting term. The use of these words does not show an indifference to the animalsí treatment. In fact, the farmer has put a lot of effort into treating the animal well so that it grows into a fine animal.  It is a reference to the fact that the farmer is in a business and that business produces something, and the something that is held prior to being sold is the stock. However, if you really, truly believe it is indifference, then perhaps you really do need to go and spend some time with farmers. Perhaps you too could try doing this with an open mind.

I am fail to understand why the loss of jobs in the Australian abattoirs is more important than the loss of farmers. Yes, it is terrible when someone loses their livelihood. Itís devastating when you lose you job, I think most of us have experienced it. But why are we concerned about the jobs of meat workers, over the jobs of farmers? I see no difference in $$ís for meat workers and $$ís for farmers. Are they not all equal? Without the farmers, there will be no jobs for any meat workers. I never understand why meat workers stand against farmers, it is like people in the hospitality industry protesting against serving customers.

Hopefully the cattle are in feedlots, and not on the trucks, however if they remain for a few more weeks, I believe they will have grown too big to be sold as live export, Indonesia only takes animals of a certain size, and they will be too small to be sold to our abattoirs. What becomes of these animals then? 

In my experience, farmers do not get many freebies. We are not living the USA or the EU where farmers are heavily subsidized and treated as an endangered species. Despite your suggestion otherwise, farmers in Australia battle with drought and floods, things that they have no control over and things that do not affect many city based businesses. When was the last time you supported a farmer?

This is not about supporting a businessperson in tough times. This is about taking a market away without proper and complete consultation and reducing an industry to chaos. Its not just the farmers who are affected, itís the welfare of the animals both on the farm and waiting for export, trucking companies and their employees, the indigenous workers, their families, helicopter pilots, livestock suppliers, farm machinery businesses, boarding schools, small rural towns and many more.  The government had a knee jerk reaction to pressure and my understanding is that they did not fully investigate the matter, did not consult with states, the export industry, the farmers or the Indonesians. I also believe that the world generally, does not view Australia as cruel, but it certainly views the practices of the abattoirs in the 4 Corners footage as cruel, and the Australian governments reaction to this as poorly handled.

WA Export News:
By the way, if you want to learn about propaganda, then we suggest you look to your own industry.

They are absolute masters at their chosen art.

WA Export News:
We will address each point as follows:

The expose seen on 4 Corners was in part gathered by Animals Australia. Their evidence of atrocities upon our cattle was presented, investigated and substantiated by 4 Corners...a totally independent media source. Given what we all saw, and accept- including the vast majority of industry who fully agreed it as being blatant and brutal torture, it is down right stupid to even contemplate suggesting it is propaganda.

MLA and we are led to believe LiveCorp have to our knowledge admitted that they knew..and they failed to stop it. If that is not an indictment upon what this industry stands for...well what is?


If indeed you are not at every kill, then you cannot say that suffering does not occur. 4 Corners visited a number of slaughterhouses in Indonesia - probably more than you have. It is then reasonable to accept that they have a hell of a lot more experience than you. It is also condescending to infer that many who read this forum have not seen a cow, a horse or a chicken. That statement is ridiculous to say the least. We are all to aware of exactly how these creatures are treated, transported and slaughtered in order to be served on a plate. However, what happens to animals in Aust isn't the issue- it is the horrific treatment of our cattle in Indonesia that is the focus.

You say you believe farmers, and dare we say it, that is the problem. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see. If you refuse to see the cruelty and suffering of the cattle then you have no business being involved in farming. Might we add that given your industry mates accept the 4 Corners footage as gross cruelty, you would be in a minute minority for refusing to accept its validity.  Be sure to understand we have our eyes wide open to the realities of live export.

The offence caused by the words "stock" and "produce" is because the animals are sentient beings. Your retort failed to address this point. In the context of this discussion, it is irrelevant how long these creatures have been exploited by humans. What is relevant is the use of these words and the story they tell- one of indifference to the animal. It is that culture of indifference which permeates the whole of the industry. And the culture of indifference results in people not seeing the suffering for what it is. Unacceptable

The live export trade has all but destroyed the Australian slaughter industry. Over 40000 jobs have been lost- ask the meat workers union who also oppose live export. If the farming industry had not been so keen to grab every cent from every animal- fit or not, and had they supported our slaughter industry then perhaps the cattle would not have had to ensure such horrendous suffering. But that for a farmer is irrelevant. We read this all the time in articles online The bottom line for the industry is $$.  What always matters is the $$.

It is clear the industry because of the continual mismanagement of the handling of animals overseas, their inability to tell fact from fiction and their ability to turn a blind eye to cruelty are to blame for this travesty. Solving the probelm they have created is not the responsibility of the rest of Australia.  We are telling people like you that what happens to our sheep, goats and cattle is totally unacceptable.

The animals in both Broome and Darwin will not be on trucks- or at least should not be- especially if the industry cares about their welfare. And if they still are, then more proof the industry doesn't give a shit. The animal welfare law is clear in WA..and they industry should bear that in mind.

Our sources tell us the cattle are for the most part still in the feedlots.

If a person wishes to latch onto a business because trade is prosperous, they must also ensure they take precautions to insulate themselves when times get tough.

Farmers always have a hand out for a freebie- and the freebie is always supplied- unwillingly by the city person.  It is not my responsibility to support a businessperson when the tough times roll along. Perhaps if the pastoralists weren't so greedy and stopped breeding so many animals they wouldn't be in this position.

We strongly suggest you take off the rose coloured glasses and see the trade for what it causes. No matter you want to believe; what the industry tells you- the proof is in the footage shown on 4 Corners. The world has seen it..and Australia looks to be the cruel nation it is..all thanks to Australian live trade.

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